We have been discussing how, by fermenting dairy or coconut milk products with Lactobacillus reuteri ATCC PTA 6475 and DSM 17938, we boost hypothalamic release of oxytocin that, in turn, yields increased dermal collagen, smooths wrinkles, accelerates healing, improves bone density, restores youthful strength and muscle, increases libido, and shuts down appetite.
Unfortunately, some people have misinterpreted this to mean that consuming yogurt in any form achieves these effects—not true. So let’s clear up this confusion.
To call something “yogurt,” by (semi-arbitrary) FDA guidelines, it must be fermented by the microorganisms Lactobacillus bulgaricus and Streptococcus thermophilus (unspecified strains). It can contain other fermenting species such as Lactobacillus acidophilus or Bifidobacteria species, but it must contains the first two species in order to be labeled “yogurt.” So our L. reuteri “yogurt,” if this were being sold commercially, could not be labeled as such because it was not fermented with Lactobacillus bulgaricus or Streptococcus thermophilus.
We are therefore not really making yogurt, but fermenting dairy or coconut milk with a unique microorganism to amplify bacterial counts of this specific species/strain. I’ve called it “yogurt” because it looks like yogurt, tastes like yogurt, and fits a familiar role in eating habits—but it’s NOT yogurt. And, of course, I’m not selling it to you.
So, by consuming Yoplait or Dannon or Stonyfield Farms yogurt, you will not be obtaining the L. reuteri-generated boost in oxytocin. I have nothing against these products (aside from the high sugar and/or high-fructose corn syrup content of some), but they do not provide the same benefits as our L. reuteri fermented product. Because this idea of fermenting with unique microorganisms is so new, there is no appropriate terminology for this. So I shall continue to call it yogurt for our non-commercial purposes, but don’t let that confuse you into thinking that all yogurts yield the same benefits, because they do not.
And, by the way, our “yogurt” is the beginning of an entire host of interesting possibilities in the targeted amplification of specific bacterial species and strains that yield health benefits. I foresee a time when you can take a specific strain or strains, amplify counts via fermentation to yield “yogurt,” and address various health conditions and, for instance, accelerate weight loss, reverse health conditions such as Parkinson’s disease, even improve mental and physical performance.
Thank you dr. Davis for clarifying that confusion for me. I’m making Bulgarian yogurt for a long time. Now I have all I need to make the L-reuteri yogurt. There is one part that is not clear to me. How long should I keep fermenting 36 hours or 48 hours on 100F?
Toby Lime wrote: «How long should I keep fermenting 36 hours or 48 hours on 100F?»
The official recipe is 36 hours for dairy-based, and 48 for non-dairy.
With reasonably sterile equipment, doing dairy for more than 36 (as I do), doesn’t seem to have any downside, and provides more convenient logistics, more CFUs, and perhaps more pronounced whey separation.
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Thank you very much Bob! The L reuteri is in the oven…😃
I’ve been using the organic ultra pasteurized half and half , Horizon Organic brand.
INGREDIENTS
Organic Grade A Milk, Organic Grade A Cream. Contains Milk
Is this ok to make the yogurt??
Northington Karon wrote: «…half and half , Horizon Organic brand. … Is this ok to make the yogurt??…»
It may be. We just bought some for other purposes, the regional dairy being out of cream.
The only concern might be the cream ingredient in the H&H. Horizon also sells “cream”, but as HWC (heavy whipping cream), which has added gellan gum. Does the H&H contain undeclared gellan gum? I tend to think not.
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It is WoEgurt.
I’ve made two small batches to get started, and then a third larger, 3 quart round and it is absolutely delicious. It tastes similar to store bought Greek yogurt and is sour which is the way I like it. Initially I set the sous vide to 100 deg but found 105 is better. Takes about 24-30 hours. I opted to bring the whole milk to 180 deg F first, then let it cool, add inulin and previous yogurt. Then into quart jars, and into a pot with the sous vide operating.
James, congratulations. For a taste experiment, try using Organic Valley Half and Half and sous vide at 103°. 30 hours.
Are the instructions for making L. reuteri coconut milk yogurt the same as for milk?
Mark wrote: «Are the instructions for making L. reuteri coconut milk yogurt the same as for milk?»
No. It requires added carbohydrate substrate, because coconut milk lacks the sugar (lactose) of dairy milk, and it also apparently requires more time.
The top two non-dairy L.reut recipes on the subscription forum are:
JenB: Coconut milk l. Reuteri yogurt
Daphne: Daphne’s L-reuteri coconut milk yogurt UPDATED-no muss, no fuss, NOT vegan
The basenotes, with the recipes, are visible to non-subscribers.
I haven’t personally tried either.
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I’ve found that using a wire whisk to combine the solids and the whey (when fermenting is done) yields a thick product that doesn’t separate in the refrigerator … no need to discard the whey. I assume the CFU is still high?
Bonnie wrote: «I’ve found that using a wire whisk to combine the solids and the whey (when fermenting is done) yields a thick product that doesn’t separate in the refrigerator…»
That can be done, and is little different from batches that merely exhibit no separation.
re: «I assume the CFU is still high?»
Higher than what? My guess is that where whey separates, the CFUs in it might be lower than in the main substrate, just due to lower carbohydrates t continue metabolizing. But they must still be pretty high, because it makes a fine starter.
Separating the why is not required. Some people prefer to do it for epicurean reasons, and others as a weight loss aid.
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Sorry, weight loss is better with or without whey?
Marlene Wolfberg wrote: «Sorry, weight loss is better with or without whey?»
Without. Here’s some discussion:
Should you switch to A2 dairy?
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My L- reuteri yogurt is ready. I have 24 hours, 36 hours and 48 hours products in the refrigerator. Unfortunately all of them are pretty bad. I wonder if it is safe to be consumed. Probably the bacteria is not good because of the high temperature when it was delivered.
Toby Lime wrote: «…all of them are pretty bad.»
Bad how? Consistency, texture, color, odor, growths?
re: «Probably the bacteria is not good because of the high temperature when it was delivered.»
In that case, the expected result might be either no change from starting materials, or just sour milk.
Also, did you ever run a multi-hour test batch that was just pre-warmed water? If so, what temp did it hold?
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Everything is bitter. The 48h one got a little bit sour and looks like cottage cheese. The problem is the bitterness. Also you can’t taste the inulin. I believe we can taste the bacteria also. I have a thermometer that shows 100, 105… after I tasted all three batches I got very dizzy. The taste in my mouth was very bitter sweet. I don’t believe this is safe to eat. What do you think? I used Horizon Organic half and half. I will try with whole milk the other 10 tablets before I throw it away. Also it’s a little bit like pink the one that is 36 hours.😏
Toby Lime wrote: «Everything is bitter.»
If I recall correctly, you’ve elsewhere reported that you make other yogurts. So you know what a typical yogurt is supposed to taste like, and wouldn’t mistake tart for bitter.
re: «The 48h one got a little bit sour and looks like cottage cheese.»
The cottage cheese appearance is commonly reported, particularly from batches started with tablets (I’ve seen it myself). It tends to suggest expected bacterial activity.
re: «Also you can’t taste the inulin.»
I’d be surprised if anyone did. It’s pretty tasteless to begin with, not enough is present to add much sweetness, and it’s expected to be metabolized by the L.reuts to some degree.
re: «…after I tasted all three batches I got very dizzy.»
That has not been reported previously, to my recollection.
re: «I don’t believe this is safe to eat.»
I’m not going to disagree with you.
re: «I used Horizon Organic half and half.»
As it happens, I have some of that on hand, and I’ll use it for my next batch.
re: «Also it’s a little bit like pink the one that is 36 hours.??»
I saw that with my experimental coconut batches (back before we had evolved recipes), and I tossed ’em.
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… I would say bitter.
… it was absolutely nothing like yogurt.
I will try one more time. If the problem are the tablets I don’t see how I’m going to have a different outcome.
So, would you really compare the L reuteri yogurt to a normal yogurt taste. I’m not sure what kind of expectations should I have. Obviously that was wrong, but what is right?
Toby Lime wrote: «I will try one more time.»
You might want to hold off for 48 hours or so. I just started a batch using Horizon Organic H&H. If it’s successful, we can rule that out as a factor. If it fails, the we’ll both have learned something.
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Hi Bob,
Do you have any feedback on the half and half yogurt?
Toby Lime wrote: «Do you have any feedback on the half and half yogurt?»
Just pulled it, bottled and refrigerated it, at 47 hours.
Firmest batch ever. No whey separation at all (which is a bit surprising considering that the starter included 3 ice cubes worth of whey plus one of yogurt). Haven’t tasted it yet, but the color and aroma are consistent with all other batches lately.
So I think we can rule out Horizon Organic H&H as a suspect. My recipe probably varies from yours. It was 1½ quarts H&H (someone consumed some before I got to it), 3 tablespoons inulin, all re-pasteurized, re-cooled to 105°F, starter (above) added, and into the ad-hoc reactor, temp range 100-102°F (due to the hot weather making the basement a bit warmer than in other seasons).
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I’m going to give it a try again. I am planning to make Bulgarian yogurt and the L-r. This time I will used 1 quart half and half + 1 quart milk. Do you boil the milk with the inulin? Or you mix the inulin with the tablets and put it later when the milk is 105F? Do You need to crush the tablets to a fine powder? I’ve noticed in your recipe that you’re using potato starch as well. Is that an old idea or you’re still doing it?
Toby Lime wrote: «I am planning to make Bulgarian yogurt and the L-r.»
Not in the same batch, I trust. The L.r. ferment must be free of all other cultures (and excessive opportunistic organisms).
re: «Do you boil the milk with the inulin?»
Yes, I do, and with the whisk in the pot. None of that is recipe canon (for pre-pasteurized dairy). My intent is to ensure no unauthorized life forms in the ferment. It introduces an unknown in terms of possibly de-polymerizing the inulin. It does assure that the inulin is well blended.
re: «Or you mix the inulin with the tablets and put it later when the milk is 105F?»
After the 10 min 180+° re-pasteurization, the pot goes into a cold water bath, and is stirred down to 105°F, then set on a towel. The starter is added and well-stirred in. By the time I get the pot to the reactor, it’s coasted down to ~100°F.
re: «Do You need to crush the tablets to a fine powder?»
Yes. When I start from tabs, I use a mortar and pestle for that.
re: «I’ve noticed in your recipe that you’re using potato starch as well.»
Not any more. I found it to congeal at the bottom early in the ferment, and even with a re-whisk at 12 hours or so, didn’t seen to add any real benefit. I’m happy with just inulin as extender.
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🤣 not in the same batch of course! I’m just going to use the oven for the same action. Let’s hope for Success this time!
Bob, I’m sorry to bother you again on this issue but I like to make it right. This time I would like to try organic milk 1 quart. So I’m going to put 2 tablespoons of inulin and I will boil it for 10 minutes on 180 Fahrenheit whisking it all the time. I will cool it off to 105. I will crush ( know this is the pointed I wander: 10 tablets?). I will put the tablets in a plastic bag and I will crush them with my mortar and pestle till they become a dust. I will add them to the milk and I will whisk for 2 minutes. I will move the mixture into the glass jar. I will close the jar I will put towel around it and I will install it in the oven with the light on. The temperature is between 105- 110. I will keep it there for 2 days. I will refrigerate for 6 hours. Hopefully I will end up with L.r. yogurt. Please correct any point that you think it’s not right. Thank you.
Toby Lime wrote: «This time I would like to try organic milk 1 quart. So I’m going to put 2 tablespoons of inulin and I will boil it for 10 minutes on 180…»
That’s what I do personally, but it is considered optional on the program recipe.
re: «…whisking it all the time.»
That’s not necessary. I only whisk when adding the inulin, and then later while cooling (to get uniform cooling in the cold water bath), and of course when adding the starter after cooling.
re: «I will cool it off to 105.»
That’s what I do. By the time the final mix is ready to ferment, it’s usually coasted down to ~100°F.
re: «I will crush ( know this is the pointed I wander: 10 tablets?). I will put the tablets in a plastic bag and I will crush them with my mortar and pestle till they become a dust.»
For one quart, started from tablets, that’s the recipe. Expect such initial batches to not be as thick and uniform as later batches made from saved yogurt or whey fraction.
re: «I will add them to the milk and I will whisk for 2 minutes.»
I doubt that I whisk for more than 30 seconds.
re: «I will move the mixture into the glass jar. I will close the jar…»
Make sure the lid is not tight. I’ve never made a batch with a tight lid, and have no real idea whether pressure increases or decreases. I might add that I just put the pot into my reactor. I don’t decant to jars until after the ferment.
re: «I will close the jar I will put towel around it and I will install it in the oven with the light on.»
If you’re confident that holds 95-105°F, that should work. I would recommend turning the oven light on several hours before doing anything else. This is an important step one for any equipment lacking thermostatic control.
Using the oven light technique, I’m not sure the towel is adding much. If I wanted a thermal buffer, I’d be tempted to put warm (100°F) water in a pot, put the jars in that, then put the pot in the oven. You can then place a thermometer or probe in the water to keep an eye on the temperature.
re: «The temperature is between 105- 110.»
That should work, although 97°F is consider optimal for these strains, and I aim to stay in the range 95-105°F. Going under 95°F may risk contamination from environmental microbes. Going over 115°F appears to start to killing off the L.reuts.
re: «I will keep it there for 2 days.»
That’s what I do, but 36 hours is the official recipe.
re: «I will refrigerate for 6 hours.»
If you don’t mind it warm, you can consume it immediately. The main point of refrigeration is to slow further bacterial growth, for shelf life.
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My second attempt to make L- r. yogurt is in the oven. I will report the result in 2 days.
thank you again
Subsequent batches of yogurt …I make subsequent batches by using couple of spoons of previously made yogurt as starter and don’t use any inulin. It comes out perfect. I used inulin only when i made the first batch with tablets. Are we supposed to use inulin in subsequent batches?
bjmnnv wrote: «Are we supposed to use inulin in subsequent batches?»
Most people do (and I do). If it doesn’t get metabolized, it’s just a bit beneficial prebiotic fiber in a portion. I had some further speculation here, but the exact biochemistry remains unclear to me.
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